“I need a cup of coffee.” At noon on December 3, 2023, before the official interview began, Schüssel once again emphasized to his assistant.

From December 1st to 3rd, 78-year-old former Austrian Chancellor Wolfgang Schüssel spent three busy days in Guangzhou. Opening speeches, media meetings, parallel forum speeches… his schedule is filled with “brain activities”.

This is his first time to participate in the “Understanding China” international conference. “This is an open discussion, very interesting and exciting.” Schüssel told Southern Weekly journalists that it is different from “people reading out written speeches.” This was a conversation with arguments, “both positive and negative, and people expressed their opinions.”

“There are representatives from different countries here. Whether they are Europeans, Americans, or Chinese, everyone can participate. This makes it possible for people to reflect on existing positions, understand new ideas, and gain enlightenment.” Schüssel said.

In the past 40 years, Schüssel has visited China more than ten times and witnessed China’s “incredible development.” Schüssel is friendly to China and values relations with China. During his term as prime minister from 2002 to 2007, the trade volume between China and Austria doubled several times.

In recent years, against the background of tense relations between China and the United States, voices such as “decoupling theory” and “deglobalization” have become increasingly popular, casting a shadow on China-EU cooperation. Schüssel said he was “totally opposed to decoupling” because it was globalization and international trade that brought affluence and prosperity.

“Globalization is good for China, good for Europe, good for the United States, and good for those less developed countries. And decoupling is a ‘lose-lose’ strategy.” He said.

“China is a special model”

Q: How do you think the difference between China’s pattern of development, the road and the way China develop itself, and westerns’?

A: China is of course a specific model. In fact, no free flow, free enterprises, no private ownership and private property was possible. This is completely different and (there is) development in a very positive way.

And I think this combination is interesting.  And normally we thought that to say market economy, free enterprise, private company, market economy, goes hand in hand with openness and democratic plurality. And China shows a different model. It is positive and Chinese model of democracy under the leadership of one party, the Communist Party is possible.

But interestingly, for me, the Communist Party has a certain specific impetus, a kind of a meritocratic approach. They’re choosing the best and talented persons. And they test them and send them with different the positions again if they are successful. Then they can move to the next step. This is a quite interesting model and it is not our model, but it is a model which obviously functions.

Q: How do the Europe view the rise of China?

A: But I think all in all, there’s great respect in the European population for the peaceful rise of China. I’m an old economist and I remember when Deng xiaoping came into power, the GDP of China at that time was less than 200 billion dollars. Today, this is 7000 Billion dollars. So I think this is an incredibly positive rise and positive step forward. This is a model, because hundreds of millions of poor people were kept out of poverty and they’re now living under the really extremely positive conditions. And China plays a very significant role in supporting the belt and road initiative. So I think China is big on the international global scene and has real impact and real influence. I think that’s great respect and admiration for this Chinese model. Of course, we have different views on our political system, that’s for sure. But nevertheless, each country has the right to choose its own future. And China doesn’t in Europe as well.

Q: In most cases, the report about the China in Europe is not positive. What is the reason behind it?

A: (In the conflict between Russia and Ukraine,) and since nearly two years, 1 million people are either dead or crippled, mostly young people. Every day, missiles and drones rain down over Ukraine and destroying infrastructure and civilian houses, apartments, etc. The regions now where the battle is fought are now looking like moon. Nobody can live there. I think we hope that China will use its influence to stop this war and to respect the sovereignty of independent country.

Decoupling is a ‘lose-lose’ strategy

Q: There are some negative voices about the globalization. Some countries are emphasizing  especially decoupling from China. In May 2023, Austrian Foreign Minister mentioned in the meeting with China’s Foreign Minister Wang Yi that Austria does not advocate the decoupling from China. And what do you think about this?

A: I’m completely against decoupling. It is not possible because what made us rich and prosperous was globalization, was international trade. To the real figures that the customs went down, the exchange on trade exploded for some time.  Globalization is good for China, good for Europe, good for America, good for those less developed countries. So this absolutely not possible.

The international algorithm made the study in spring this year, when decoupling really takes place, it would damage GDP by 7%, this would even hurt more those countries who are much more integrated in the global supply chain like China or Austria, Europe and America, it is really a loose strategy.

Q: Do de-risking and decoupling mean the same thing?

A: De-risking is different. I know that there was some saying this is the same, but it is not the same. At the de-risking means, nobody wants to be completely dependent on one partner. Take the pandemic situation. Suddenly we saw we have no medical equipment anymore and due to the blockade of trade because everything was shut down. We have no pharmaceuticals from India or masks from China. De-risking means you have to keep a certain reserve to protect your own people, your own population if something happens.

In energy we cannot be totally dependent on Russia.We have to diversify our sources because if someone blows up  pipeline in Austria or if Ukraine or Russia stops Nord Stream 1, everything is broken. And without energy, without electricity, you can imagine what does it means for your industries. You have to diversify. China is also de-risking. China needs to keep its sovereignty on data, supply chain, etc. This is absolutely understandable and we will do the same.

For instance, the Europeans outsourced the defense to the American, said President Trump eventually we will leave, we will leave NATO and then you are responsible for your sake. So this is what de-risking means. We have to invest more in our own defense because you have to protect your own people in the situation of crisis.

And what happens if suddenly a hacker’s attack, block to governments, sites, hospitals, energy companies? So de-risking means like a company that has a professional attitude to analyze the potential risks for a company from all side, political risks, technical risks, outside risks, market risks. I said every company is now willing to protect itself from such risks and government has to do so.

Q: Recently, China has been  emphasizing the high–level opening up. And what opportunities do you think China’s opening up will bring to Austria or what areas can be cooperated by the two countries?

A: And I think so, this opening up of China is important. I think there are two elements which struck me during our debates. First of all, the idea presented by our Chinese friends that China will now concentrate on a kind of a single market to unified Chinese market, to develop the domestic market with the same rules in all provinces, in the financial market, the financial distributions, the loans standards, etc. This is exactly what the European Union made with the single market, which is not totally completed. And if we want to complete it, it would be a big push in additional growth. I think this is interesting that China is going the same way and this will also help us that if China presents a large-scale market with their consumers and their economic industrial partners. I think this is a big success and an advantage for all of us.

The second point is that China is now more interested in developing a kind of inter-regional trade with the ASEAN country, which is also absolutely good. And this is also something that helps us because I know that a lot of our companies in Europe are also interested to get more in touch with ASANE countries. And I think you cannot judge which product is exactly from where. If I show you my smartphone, this is 700 or 800 different components. And you can’t know from which country. From Vietnam, from Thailand, from China, from America, etc. Whatever. The same. my car, my Audi car is consisting of 900 different components. It was finally manufactured in Mexico, then transported to Europe. But the engine is coming from Slovakia, gas is coming from Hungary, parts are coming from China. Some elements are still coming from Germany. It is not only a German car.

And I think this inter-regional cooperation is good because it also fosters good neighborhood. For instance, we are now within the European Union, (it is) interested to bring in our West Balkan countries in the European Union. They fought 30 years ago. They had the bloody war in the Balkans. It’s good for peace. And this would be good because it would force the peace. if Serbia, for instance, has trade with Croatia or with Slovenia, with Bosnia.  So I think inter-regional cooperation is good for prosperity. It’s good for peace. It’s good for a harmonious future.

 “All in all, there is cooperation needed”

Q: In August 2020, the first China Europe train departed from Vienna in more than three years. What benefits has this train brought to Austrian companies? And what impact will it have on Austria’s economy?

A: I think that the trains are important because the transports of containers via railroad is much faster and I think quite effective compared with the normal naval transportation, which is by the way also much more negative in environmental aspects. It’s cheaper, but it’s really much more negative in environmental terms of pollution, such as CO2 emissions, etc. So in my opinion, railway transportation is  one of the elements of the future and therefore I think this could cut costs and make the cooperation much more effective. And we see  that in Germany these combinations are quite successful. If you look to the real figures, trade is going up and so there is  no idea of deglobalization or decoupling.

Q: How do you view the current China–US relationship?

A: First of all, 80% of the world’s population is neither Chinese nor American. I think this is not the only cooperation which is needed. I think we should really work together from the European side with China.  And we are looking and trying to develop together. By the way, with China, the same interest.

A multi-polar world needs functioning institutions, United Nations, WTO. So this is important. If a problem is there and the arbitration is always better than bilateral tensions. So I think this is our interest. First, the military contacts are resumed, which is important because it can always be an unintended accident, which nobody wants to create, but it could happen. What we need is a multi-polar world, not a bipolar world, not only two G2 countries dominating the world. I think it might for be all of us well with good international institutions.

 I see that during the last personal meeting with President Xi, Jinping and Joe Biden in San Francisco. This was a first step towards a kind of a reset of the American-Chinese relations.

I think we should really look forward for a positive and bright future because I think the world needs it  and the problems are there, climate change, financial problems, inflation, regional conflicts. So I think all in all, there is cooperation needed.

Q: Do you think Austria or Europe will take sides when the China–US relation is in tension?

A: Let’s cross the bridge when we get there. I trust the leaders on both sides, they are reasonable people and rational people. And I think good politicians have always the well-being of their people in mind. And well-being of people means prosperity, means peace, means jobs and a good position to compete with other countries, but in a peaceful and on an economic way.

During this conference, we  commemorated Henry Kissinger. He was one of the architects of such a good policy. He was born in Germany, expelled, then he was expelled. (He) was a refugee of Nazi Germany to America and then he became one of the most important historians. He became really an advocate of peaceful cooperation, not head-to-head confrontation, but hand-in-hand cooperation.

We also commemorated Li Keqiang recently, the later prime minister of China who created  a home-board forum between Europe and China 10 years ago to develop an innovative view of the world and a holistic approach to solving interrelated problems.

 So I think these two leaders are  really for us as role models who teach us how to survive in difficult times. And this is the challenge that we are seeing today, but it’s nothing to be pessimistic. We should  make the positive future possible.

Source: Southern Weekly

Author | MAO Shujie, Zhai Huan
Editor | YAO Yijiang
Translator | Lin Xi, Zhai Huan